Czech Justice Minister, in debate with the Romani community in Brno, rejects the idea of racial bias in the justice system

The release from custody of the man who is suspected of murdering a Romani community member in June at the Brno Reservoir is something the minister considers standard procedure. The debate was held by the ROMEA and Romodrom organizations and filmed by ROMEA TV; the minister said it was beneficial.

The debate was held to discuss the court’s decision to release the suspect on his own recognizance pending trial. The 37-year-old foreign national has been preliminarily charged with harming two people with a knife near a tram stop, both of whom were hospitalized.

One of those people later died in hospital. He was a young Romani man and the assailant, according to information that police have yet to confirm, was reported by the media to be a Ukrainian.

Soon after the young man’s death, tensions began to rise between parts of the Romani and Ukrainian communities. The information that the suspect had been released from pre-trial custody again sparked dissatisfaction in the Romani community.

“Nobody knew there were tensions between the Roma and Ukrainians. That was a surprise to us. I didn’t know anything about it and I think I’m not alone. However, this incident showed us that this is a long-term problem. The role of the state is to calm the situation, which is why I am here, to listen to what is bothering you,” Blažek told the audience.

Why did Minister Blažek fan the flames before, instead of calming tensions?

Moderator Richard Samko reminded the minister of his remark at the start of July about a demonstration in Pardubice by the Romani community. “The convening and the holding of the assembly in Pardubice is happening in breach of the Act on Assembly. Attending it and calling for others to attend it is illegal,” the minister tweeted at the time.

“Minister, I was startled by the fact that you commented on that situation, but we have never heard any expressions of compassion from you, no statements that the institutions of the state would be performing their roles in all these cases. We never heard that from you, but we did hear your other remarks, and they made many Romani people – and not just them – angry,” Samko opened the debate.

“My remarks were not targeting anybody, including the Roma, I’m just not a fan of what is called political correctness,” the minister responded. When he was asked again why he hadn’t chosen to calm the situation, he asked: “How can I calm anybody down through the Internet?”

Tomáš Ščuka: Antigypsyism is not being punished in the Czech Republic

“Antigypsyism is basically considered legitimate here, anytime anybody defames the Roma as a whole, it is never considered a crime. Then, when a violent murder takes place and news of it spreads very fast on social media, we aren’t ready for it. We are not prepared for disinformation, as a society, the state is not reflecting on this, and then some vulnerable minorities or socially excluded communities comprehend the information that is circulating differently, and that is what we should be addressing, the climate in society that is created by this,” said Tomáš Ščuka, a member of the newly-formed City of Brno Council for Roma.

“That term of yours, antigypsyism, I don’t know exactly what you mean by it, but one thing is certain. It is a criminal offense in this country, it is punishable,” responded the Justice Minister, adding that society is no longer in the 1990s, when brutal physical assaults were perpetrated on Romani people by neo-Nazis.

Blažek said the current situation is better, even if people do express themselves in racist terms on social media from time to time. Vice-Mayor of Brno Robert Kerndl then pointed out that the city has been communicating with Romani residents even before the unfortunate incident in June.

“We don’t just want to address the current atmosphere and mood in society, which is not exactly good, as our primary focus. We want to look to the future, which means, as we said to each other earlier, that we want to dedicate ourselves fully to all of the areas which are of interest to all of us – that means housing, the school system, employment, education and so on. I will be very glad to meet with you all,” Kerndl said.

Czech Government Commissioner for Romani Minority Affairs Lucie Fuková pointed out that Romani people still feel the state is not giving them enough information. “For the Romani public, and not just them, some information in the media is rather unintelligible, it’s unclear, and then different false alarms happen, manipulations. There actually is a lack of information in the Romani community and a demand for these matters to be explained in more detail, exactly by the state,” she said.

Fuková expressed her appreciation for Brno creating the new advisory council of Roma. “That is one forum where Romani people can sit at the same table with municipal representatives and communicate with them together about the basic problems bothering us here, and by solving them, we want to improve the situation,” she said.

Jana Horváthová: The Roma do not feel heard!

The Romani people who attended the debate said they believe they are not enjoying equal rights and that they are disadvantaged in society. “All of us are sitting here today to open up the channels of communication. You do not know what these Romani people go through their entire lives, the stigma, from birth, even still today. That goes for all of the areas for which the Government is responsible. Here’s one example. You all have been elected for different parties, naturally big ones, that’s how you were elected, and now, ask yourselves, were there any Romani-related subjects that were part of your campaigns? If they had been, then maybe a candidate who is Romani would also have run for Parliament and been elected for your party. There is not a single one there! The Roma feel unheard,” said the director of the Museum of Romani Culture, Jana Horváthová, who is an historian.

Some Romani people also believe the courts approach them unfairly and make decisions on the basis of their skin color. Blažek rejected out of hand the very idea that an approach that would be discriminatory is part of the system.

“You all keep saying what we have to do, but what will you do with regard to the Roma? You’re a minister, how will you address the issue of the judicial system? It bothers me that we are not enjoying the rights which we should have. Those rights are warped, all of us here see that,” said Jozef Daniel from the Brno Team organization.

“Look at the courts. How do they judge? If a person comes there [as a defendant] who is the same color as me, then he’s immediately convicted,” Daniel asserted.

“I cannot guarantee that absolutely no individuals are prejudiced, but in our country there is nothing like a justice system with a racial bias. This custody release decision seems standard to me. It’s common for suspects to be released from custody once the judge receives more information about the case. It’s not different because the deceased is Romani,” Blažek said.

“I wouldn’t even expect you to admit it,” one of the Romani women present responded to the minister. Gwendolyn Albert, a member of the Czech Government Council for Romani Minority Affairs and translator for news server Romea.cz, suggested it might be a good idea to undertake an analysis that would either confirm or deny the feeling among Romani people that courts decide on the basis of skin color.

Blažek on the release of the man from custody: There are many such decisions every year, the fact that the victim is Romani played no role

“Many Romani people are under the mistaken impression that because this person was released, the case is solved. Those of us here know the procedures are different and that is not the case. We need to hear from you: ‘Yes, I, as the minister responsible for this agenda, guarantee that the procedures are running correctly and that they will run correctly and fairly’,” said Nikola Taragoš, director of Romodrom.

Blažek pointed out that it is always problematic when a politician comments on court decisions. “The custodial judge – not the judge who will make the definitive decision, i.e., the decision on guilt and on punishment – came to the conclusion that in his opinion, to which he has a right, it is probable that the categorization of the crime should not be murder, and he decided for release. I have not seen the file for this case, I just saw that decision, and there are many such decisions every year. This is not an exceptional event just because the person who was murdered or killed is Romani. This happens all the time,” the minister said.

“I genuinely do not believe there is a racial subtext to that decision,” Blažek reiterated. The meeting was also attended by Judge Martin Vrbík, who praised news server Romea.cz for publishing an article by Anna Beránková, a lawyer, explaining the entire judicial procedure.

The judge explained the process once again during the Brno debate. He emphasized that judges rule on whether suspects should be taken into custody at a point where information is at a minimum.

During the course of the proceedings, more information comes to light and the judge is obligated to respond to new facts. Audience members then asked what guarantee there is that this foreign national will not flee the country.

“The court is responsible for that,” the minister said. He admitted that the media should pressure judges more to explain their rulings more thoroughly; according to Romani organizations, the lack of clear communication is what has caused uncertainty in the community.

Dušan Plachetka: We are afraid for our children. Robert Kerndl: Some of these cases are disinformation, somebody is stirring this up

Dušan Plachetka, a Romani activist, spoke about Romani people’s fear of Ukrainians. “Children are going back to school soon. Who will guarantee to us that the children from Ukraine won’t be carrying knives in their satchels? The Ukrainian man who was going to the reservoir to have a good time was carrying one. Will the Government guarantee us that, will Mr. President? Nobody will. We are afraid for our children. I have three children, and I do not intend for anybody to kill any of them!” he said.

“I’m beginning to comprehend this, now that this debate is happening. You’re basically telling me, and now I will put it crudely, that part of Ukrainian culture is a dispute between Ukrainians and Roma that is being imported into the Czech Republic,” the minister said, earning applause.

“Nobody should fear for their children’s lives,” Blažek said. Brno Vice-Mayor Kerndl also responded and said that some of the cases being discussed in the Romani community in the context of assaults allegedly committed by Ukrainians are disinformation and must be combated.

Kerndl reminded the audience that currently there are regular meetings between police (either city or state police) and Romani residents in Brno. “Always, at the beginning, I ask the police whether they know of any such cases, if the problems being discussed in the Romani community exist. They say ‘We don’t know about these’. Actually, these are isolated incidents and I believe we have to start fighting such disinformation together,” he said.

“At the same time, let’s talk about how, in collaboration with you, we will do all we can for the isolated incidents you are talking about not to ever happen. I’m not saying they can’t happen, but I am convinced that to a great degree these reports are really disinformation that somebody is feeding us,” said Kerndl, who also responded to the idea that there could be clashes between Romani and Ukrainian children at the start of the school year.

Kerndl said the city leadership is paying attention to this subject. “We set up an advisory body with 12 representatives of the Romani community, myself, and Ms. Irena Matonohová, who is in charge of the schools. We have agreed with representatives of the city police and the Police of the Czech Republic that next week there will be patrols near the schools attended by more Roma and Ukrainians,” he said.

The mayor of the Brno-sever Municipal Department, Martin Maleček (The SOL Movement), where a large number of the excluded localities in Brno are located, added that his local authority is in contact with the principals of schools about the issue. In his view, they are not as concerned about conflicts between the children as they are about conflicts between parents.

Blažek on the early release of the Vítkov arsonists: I would never have wanted them released if Natálka had been my daughter

Romani community member Martin Miko of the Olomouc Region asked the Justice Minister whether, if he were a judge, he would have made the same decision as the judge who granted an early release to two of the Vítkov arsonists who maimed Natálie Kudriková for life in 2009. “If that were my child, I would never have wanted them released. There’s nothing else I can say to you, but I do not want to assess or condemn that judge,” the minister responded emotionally.

Fuková then opened the subject of whether there is enough support in the Czech Republic for crime victims. “Natálka’s family learned from the media that two of the arsonists had been released, and I think that’s not right. That family should have had some support and it raises the question of how the rights of victims are protected, it might be appropriate to begin discussing that now,” she said.

Blažek said that a crime victim law has been on the books for several years now, but it is lacking in many respects. “Many victims, for example, are unaware that there is a fund for victims, they are not applying to it, so naturally that’s a problem,” he responded, adding that it is necessary to promote that fact more; he also pointed out that courts do not proceed uniformly when it comes to informing crime victims of the early release of the perpetrators who harmed them.