Interview with Czech manager who doesn't hire Roma as housekeepers
News server Romea.cz has obtained a recording in which Anna Pižlová, manager of the Clinea firm, refuses to invite a Romani woman to interview for a housekeeping position. On the recording, the manager explains that her clients would not want the woman because of her nationality.
Pižlová asserts that her clients prefer Filipinas and that while some of them might tolerate Bulgarians or Ukrainains, they do not want Romani women. Clinea offers cleaning services and supplies domestic helpers, including people whom they bring to the Czech Republic from the Phillippines.
The recording was not made as part of a project to test whether employers adhere to the law, but was made as part of normal work on a project aiding the unemployed. News server Romea.cz then interviewed Ms Pižlová.
Q: I have heard the recording where you say that if a job applicant were a Romani woman it would be a problem because your clients don’t want Roma. How does your firm choose its employees?
A: When we choose a housekeeper we do a half-hour interview in which the housekeeper completes a four-page questionnaire listing her experience and references, followed by a two or three-hour test cleaning session. She washes windows, for example, and we watch how she does it… Then we put a profile together for her, because the client has to know who’s coming to their place. We don’t clean ordinary apartments, these are wealthier households, homes in the Prague suburbs and such… The profile includes a photograph…
Q: If the client sees someone in the photograph whom he believes is Romani, he will object?
A: When we opened our firm we employed three Romani women, but when the clients saw their photos they called and asked whether the housekeeper was of Romani nationality, and I couldn’t lie to them. They just didn’t want them. I can’t influence that… If a client refuses three profiles like that… You understand – for me it takes a terribly long time to choose new employees, I can’t be held back by a client rejecting them, unfortunately.
Q: I understand, but are you aware that your firm is breaking the Anti-Discrimination Act? Do you understand that you are violating the law when you tell candidates in advance that you don’t hire Romani women?
A: How am I supposed to explain this to the client? I am guaranteeing the housekeeper by sending her to a client, but how am I supposed to convince the client of that guarantee? He’s the one paying for the service, after all, he can say whether he doesn’t like someone, that perhaps he’d prefer an older housekeeper, that he doesn’t want a student, people have the right to do that… . When you order a service you negotiate the terms too…
Q: Yes, but this is clear discrimination on the basis of nationality, skin color…
A: Am I supposed to tell clients that they are controlled by the law to the extent that they must bring such a person into their home?
Q: You aren’t even inviting a Romani woman to compete, though – you might discover that she’s excellent.
A: Yes, indeed, I have told the clients that. I employed three Romani women and sent them to clients to do a one-time cleaning job because for those there is no need to send a profile in advance. The clients then called to say that if they had seen a photo in advance they would not have consented. They would not have invited that person into their home.
Q: I understand your position, but it is a fact that if you reject someone out of hand because she’s Romani, you’re breaking the law.
A: So am I to choose these people and then tell them I have no work for them? Forgive me… The housekeeper will be upset too in that case. That’s why I prefer to speak with them and tell them I’m sorry. I can’t decide for the clients. I can’t say to them "You must accept this person, it’s in a law somewhere".
Q: How do you personally view this situation, do you have a problem with it?
A: Yes, it bothers me. I have employed Bulgarians and Ukrainians too, and some clients are bothered by them, but clients don’t have as much of a problem with a Bulgarian or a Ukrainian as they do with a Romani woman. The clients are set in their ways and I simply cannot convince them otherwise. I could, but I’d only be successful with 1 % of them.
Q: What do you think needs to be changed?
A: The clients have to be influenced, not me. I don’t have the problem – if a person comes to work and does a good job, I’m all for her. I need people who work and are reliable.
Q: So you wouldn’t have a problem with a Romani woman cleaning your home?
A: I would not have a problem with it. When we do the probationary cleanings, they have cleaned my home… I don’t have a problem.
Q: So this is a schizophrenic situation: You say the clients must be influenced, but doesn’t that also mean that it’s a bit up to you to say to them "This is a good worker, what’s your problem?"
A: I have explained that to them, but most clients say no. I told them, she’s gone through the selection process, she’s good, she’s careful, but they don’t want her.
Q: How is it possible to influence these clients then?
A: Advertisements, the media… I don’t know.
Q: So the clients primarily have a problem with Romani women?
A: As I said, some have a problem with Bulgarians and Ukrainians. I just had a client, for example, about whom I had the feeling that he wanted to get rid of a Ukrainian housekeeper by setting her up and committing insurance fraud. They’re bothered by the Ukrainian women’s mentality. Those women are perfect cleaners, down to the last detail, I’ve had them clean my home twice. This woman was nice, pleasant, but the clients were bothered by the fact that she is Ukrainian… Romani women are a bigger problem. The rest of the women are Filipinas whom we import…
Q: Your clients have to order them in advance, right?
A: When it comes to importing Filipinas, a client will wait four months for us to handle all of the administration, visas and all that. We sign the contract with the client in advance, we can’t afford to import Filipinas who would then have no jobs. There is demand for Filipinas because they will work for less and are always available to the clients – most of the Filipinas live in the client’s home, if you understand me. He provides her with a studio unit or a room with its own toilet and they are grateful. They don’t know what they are getting into here, it would be hard for them to find their own housing, so it’s a requirement of theirs that they be able to live with the family. The family helps them with everything… They are available, they want to work all the time, they don’t ask for weekends off.
Q: This is another topic, but recently there was a campaign here about the rights of foreign household workers, about monitoring their working hours, a campaign against their exploitation. Be that as it may, doesn’t it seem absurd to you that Romani women can’t get jobs and Filipinas are being imported?
A: The question also is how willing the Romani women are to do the work…
Q: So you ultimately also believe there is a problem with Romani women?
A: You are pressuring me to say there is a problem with them.
Q: I’m not pressuring you, I’m asking.
A: The problem generally is that some Czechs don’t want to work much. The Labor Office sent me a woman who told me that it was hard for her to spend a half an hour commuting. So where are we?! I travel one hour to get to work… The Filipinas are willing to work, they smile, they are grateful for the job… Nothing is a problem for them. For Czech people everything is a problem…
Q: All the same, I am concerned that whatever your personal views, you are breaking the law.
A: Sure, but even if I put them through the selection process, I know they’ll never make it to a client…
Q: I understand that this situation is difficult for you to resolve.
A: Yes, it’s not easy. It really can happen that a client backs out of a contract because of this. Some of my clients would definitely have done that if I had sent them a Romani woman without their prior consent.
